muppetfandomcom-20200223-history
User talk:ErnieBert
Happy Boxing Day Hey Ken -- Thanks for the Merry Christmas message, and a happy boxing day to you (since I'm too late for Christmas). I hope you had a good Christmas too! -- Wendy (talk) 04:57, 27 December 2007 (UTC) :Yeah, it was great! I gave my nephews Old School Vol. 2 (last year I gave them Vol. 1), so I'm showing them the classic years. I want to get them some Play With Me Sesame, but I wish they wouldn't come in those bulky cases! At least I know that we'll hopefully get some new CD's from Koch Records soon! :Hey, I saw your title, and I thought it was from Andrew, since I just wished him a happy Boxing Day, since he loves to read old British literature. (I only know about Boxing Day from an old M*A*S*H episode, where some British officers talked about it.) Anyway, it's great to see you again, and I'll have some questions/comments/stuff to talk about soon! -- Ken (talk) 05:26, 27 December 2007 (UTC) I have a picture for you Hi Ken.. Ive gotten a sleeve from the 45t I don't need Help with Harry Monster on the sleeve.. But I lost our mailadress..Pino 18:21, 16 December 2007 (UTC) :Hi, Paul! If you have a picture, go ahead and put it on the wiki. If you're not sure where it goes, let me know the label name and number. Thanks! -- Ken (talk) 05:05, 17 December 2007 (UTC) Something Fun Thought you might like to see this 1965 Bob promo album. -- Wendy (talk) 01:41, 14 December 2007 (UTC) :Thanks! When you said "album", I thought you meant his LP, which I've seen a mono copy of in a used record store, but I want to find it in stereo. Anyway, this is cool too, because I didn't know if any singles had been released, and now we have one! I know it's kind of beyond the scope of the wiki, but I want to try to do something with all of the obscure records that Bob and Susan made, because they seem to have had the most interest in outside recording projects. You know, Bob was actually a teen idol in Japan in the late '50's/early '60's, but nothing he did ever caught on here, and it's fascinating to wonder why he did better there than here! -- Ken (talk) 06:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC) International sesamestreet albums Hey Ken -- Is it an idea to get the international album section rearanged? All the french albums put under 1 rue sesame albums.. like sesamstraatalbums so only the vew albums are visible and the french, greman and dutch discographys? Else it stands double in that section. And maybe we can do it the same as the German and Dutch merchandise because the french also made a lot of them. So will the seperate albums come back unther the french merchandise and are international discs less chaotic. Also that australian album can moved in with the original us album.. and there where also canadian presses.-- Paul (talk) 21:35, 1 December 2007 (CET) :Yeah, I know the international section needs a lot of reorganization, but I'm not quite sure how to do it. I think you should ask Wendy or Andrew. They're admins, so they'll have a better idea of what works. I know that we were going to separate certain countries into their own section depending on how many records they've made, but I don't know if anybody decided on what they wanted to do. I'll ask around. -- Ken (talk) 02:32, 2 December 2007 (UTC) ::See Category talk: International Merchandise. Andrew thinks, and I pretty much agree that most of the International shows don't have enough merchandise (beyond albums especially) to merit their own sections yet. I just redid Category: Sesam Stasjon Merchandise a few days ago because that one did have a bunch of stuff. But the rest are pretty borderline for needing their own categories yet. I know it's chaotic for finding stuff from any given show but there just isn't that much in there. ::As for the albums, we didn't look at that specifically. Start up a talk page there and make the argument. Numbers help -- how many French albums are there exactly? -- Wendy (talk) 02:37, 2 December 2007 (UTC) :::Hey, Paul, I think I misunderstood your question. Sorry about that. The international albums are all in the International Albums category. There, they're listed alphabetically, no matter what country they're from. I know it's confusing to look for stuff there, so if a show has a lot of albums, we also have a Discography category, where the discographies are listed alphabetically by show. If a show made a lot of records, we can make new discographies, but if a show only had like 1 or 2 records, we wouldn't make one. I hope that helps! -- Ken (talk) 03:27, 2 December 2007 (UTC) Another Cassette Hey Ken -- take a look at Cassette #7 in this auction. Hopefully you have a laptop or you're going to have to crane your head. Anyhow, it's "Best of Sesame Street" but from 1983. The best I can make out, it says "Book of the Month Records" under it, which makes precisely no sense at all, and it definitely is #3 in whatever series it is. Any ideas? -- Wendy (talk) 04:05, 16 November 2007 (UTC) :Yup. I keep meaning to talk to you about the Book of the Month Club, but I keep forgetting. I've seen some entries for Book of the Month club versions of things like Susan's album, but I couldn't find out much about it. I'm thinking that they're probably similar to record club versions like we've been talking about. That you found this one with more Sight & Sound copies throws yet another new twist on things, because now I'm wondering if Sight & Sound sold these through things like Book of the Month Club. Well, now we have more titles and phrases to throw into Worldcat. By the way, please grab that, because I think I need the numbers on almost all of those. I just hope Scott can blow it up! -- Ken (talk) 06:29, 16 November 2007 (UTC) Muppets Take Manhattan book & record Hey there, Ken. A week or so ago on Wendy's page, you said you wanted to look inside MBR 710. I just picked up my copy and it doesn't really have a catalog list, sorry. (Unless, possibly, it was on the inside back flap, which apparently I cut on the dotted line for some reason. Guess it was a mail-in offer? No idea. This was too many years ago.) The back cover does have a list entitled "Also From Muppet Music" which includes: The Muppets Go Camping, Gonzo and the Giant Chicken, The Case of the Missing Mother, Muppet Manners, Two for the Show, The Case of the Missing Hat, and that MTM book itself. Only 7 on the list, which is a little weird. Anything else I can mine for you from this? -- Mark (talk) 01:45, 10 November 2007 (UTC) :If you have the numbers, that would be great! I have all of those titles, but not all of the numbers. I think the ones I don't have numbers on are Manners, Show, and Hat. So I have 700-704, and 710. 700 is a Fraggle songbook, and 701 is a Fraggle book and record called Gobo Fraggle and the Poison Cackler. All these titles have the numbers on their pages. :Can you scan the back cover? I'm messing with the idea of making some kind of page or article dealing with Muppet Music as an actual record company. So far we have like 3 LP's and all of these book and record sets, but that's it. The label doesn't exist anymore, but I'd love to talk to some Henson people about what went on during those years. It looks like it was only in business for about a year (1983-1984), and then they put the Muppet Music logo on the Manhattan LP, but it was a WB release. But the Muppet Music stuff actually had their own address, and that's always intrigued me. :Do you have any other records? We're missing a few Muppet/Sesame 45's that we don't have pictures of. Thanks for your help! -- Ken (talk) 03:06, 10 November 2007 (UTC) ::The numbers aren't listed, sorry. (But if there are 7 Muppets ones, and two Fraggle ones we know about, I wonder what the other two numbers are. More Fraggles, maybe?) At work last night, I was thinking about that flap that I cut off, and I vaguely remember it being a form to get a free catalog from Muppet Music. Of course, since I would've been mailing that out in 1989 or 1990 it's no real surprise that I never got such a thing. My scanner's still not up and running, but once it is, I swear I'll add this to the list of things I'm planning to add. Last I looked, all my Muppet music had pictures. (I really don't own much.) Right now I'm working on some of the books I have, since those aren't nearly as detailed as you've managed on the records. -- Mark (talk) 13:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC) :::If you're interested, I started a Sandbox article called Sandbox: "Muppet" brand audio and video. If you know of anything else to add, that would be great! By the way, is your record pocket in the front cover, or the back cover? I'm trying to figure out how you could cut out the inside flap without losing the place to keep the record. -- Ken (talk) 03:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC) ::::I saw the article. Looks pretty. Also looks like I have nothing to add right now. Apparently what I did at the time (I was about 12) is I replaced the flap with a piece of manilla folder. Unlike so many other things I was making and owning at the time, I didn't draw a picture of Kermit's head on it... -- Mark (talk) 12:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC) Cassette package Hi Ken. I found a 6-pack of Sight & Sound cassettes: here. Think it deserves a page? It doesn't seem to have a real title unfortunately. I'm curious about the catalog numbering system used actually as three of the tapes appear to have numbers 232, 233, & 234; the other three have GNL-22N as best I can make out! -- Wendy (talk) 23:23, 7 November 2007 (UTC) :I don't know whether to faint or give you a cyber hug! :Okay. Please grab everything, since we just got some more clues as to who the heck Sight & Sound is or was. That MPI logo seems to stand for Music Publishing International, but I can't tell if they're still in business. I was hoping maybe Scott could chop up that group picture, and put them on each page. Also, I was hoping he could maybe zoom in on that barcode, because then we could play with that, too. Can you really see those numbers? If you can, that's great, and let me tell you why. The 3 you can't see, I already have. The ones you gave me the numbers on are ones that I know were made (thanks to Worldcat), but they didn't have numbers in the system. So you just gave me 3 new numbers! So it looks like this package was just a bargain group set or something. I still wish we knew whether these were sold in stores, or just through educational companies. That bar code sure throws me. Now I'm wondering if they were sold both ways. I don't know what's more frustating: The endless variations of SS1, or these tapes that I never heard of until I got here! :It looks like you've been busy tonight! I can't believe we have both Muppet Movie promo 45's, and we can't find the "real" copies! Also, nice Australia picture sleeve! And where did you find the nice copy of Music is Everywhere? That looks good, too! :I was watching a lot of Old School 2 tonight, and I was shocked at all the little bits that I didn't remember that I remembered, you know what I mean? When I read some of the cartoon descriptions on the wiki, they don't mean anything, and then when I see them, I'm 5 years old again! That's been happening to me a lot since I came here! (Forgive me for saying this, but I miss when Sesame Street had Jim Henson, and no Elmo, instead of the other way around.) :Oh, yeah! Have you seen what Paul (Pino) has been doing? He's reworking all of the international records so they have a big picture chart like ours! It makes me want to go out and buy them, and I don't even know what they're saying! -- Ken (talk) 06:38, 8 November 2007 (UTC) ::I didn't realize that Sight & Sound was so mysterious! So I searched around on worldcat and managed to confirm that 232 is "For the First Time", 233 is "The Count Counts", and found that 235 is "Every Body's Cassette" in some of the individual library listings. So I had two out of three. I was quite sure about 232 anyhow, but it's good to check. I see dates of both 1982 and 1988 under the Sight&Sound ones. ::I found one "real" copy of the Mupp Movie 45, but the picture was hideous and there was no picture sleeve anyhow. It was a reddish orange label if that matters. I think we get the promos 'cause dealers buy up old stock from radio stations and sell 'em properly... whereas a real 45 is more likely to be buried in somebody's dad's old collection and not individually photographed. But yeah, it is frustrating. I love that australian cover. ::The "Music is Everywhere" is on ebay and I remembered you wanted it; oddly the seller also had a copy of "Rocket to the Stars" with the same yellow cover, but the artwork like on the blue cover we already have. I didn't know what to make of it. ::Paul is doing good stuff. I have a picture for at least one International SS 45 (and maybe two now that I think about it) so I may add it in at some point. ::I don't mind Elmo (although Elmo's World makes me want to scream), and I adore Rosita, so I'm not entirely old school, but I'm always astonished at how fast the current SS feels. I just want it to slow down. The last time we watched it my 2-yr-old asked for "the other Sesame instead" after a few minutes, by which he meant Old School 1. Although usually he just says "no" if I ask him whether we should turn it on at all. But if I ask whether he wants to watch "A Flower Grows" or "Dee Dee Dee" he always says yes. Go figure. Speaking of "Dee Dee Dee", it's followed by "Daddy Dear" which always ends up stuck in my head. And that would be a cartoon I'd forgotten until I saw the dvd. I can't wait for Xmas. My husband better get me Old School 2 (I figure he will actually; he got the first one for me)! -- Wendy (talk) 15:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC) :::Can you grab the yellow cover? Apparently, Columbia reissued a bunch of stuff in the '80's with yellow covers, and the text on that page mentions the other cover. :::EBay had a couple of Muppet Movie singles (red and black), but they were really blurry. By the way, have you ever seen UK versions of the other Muppet Movie LP's (Caper/Manhattan)? I always see MM1, but never the other ones. -- Ken (talk) 05:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC) ::::Ok, I grabbed the yellow rocket cover; also found a nice cassette (released by Parker Bros??). We really need album numbers on that page. Who released the CD? ::::I've never seen a UK Manhattan; for some reason I think the MC is just identical to the US release, and that I have seen it, but I'm not sure. I'll try to remember to check for awhile... ::::Incidentally I do have the SS cassette images; do you want to image chamber them? I could try to cut out the individual cassette images but I'd have to distort the image first and I suspect Scott can do it much better. -- Wendy (talk) 18:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC) :::::Yeah, the whole tape/toy thing is another whole area I knew nothing about until I came here. Remember how some of the book and record sets (I forget which ones) have entries for Hasbro on their pages? So it sounds like in the '80's, toy companies were getting into making tapes (and even records like the Fisher-Price stuff) that were reissues of material from other labels. I'm thinking that Fisher-Price's tape player had a lot to do with it, because they made a lot of different tapes, and also, Teddy Ruxpin was huge in that era. I don't ever remember toy companies making tapes before that. :::::I don't have an album number for that, but I haven't really looked. I'm guessing the yellow one is around 1987, and I have 3 other consecutive numbers of other yellow Columbia albums. I'll mess with that when I get off of here. The CD was a Jim Henson/BMG Kidz from 1993-1995, during the brief CD reissue era when we got so much cool classic stuff. I think the picture chart says it, but I forgot when it says on the album's page. :::::Yeah, let's let Scott do it. He does so much great stuff. Have you checked out the foreign stuff lately? Paul adapted my text for the picture charts, and then Scott made him a collage of their albums, similar to ours, to put at the top! I'm hoping that eventually we can get all albums around the world to match! :::::It's interesting to me that you find old Sesame Street slower than new SS, and that you find new SS to be too fast. Maybe it's me, but it seems like new SS takes forever to do anything! And I mean the main SS parts, not just Elmo's World. And people still swear that old SS caused ADD. I was watching Old School the other night, and it still holds up. It seems just right to me. I'm glad you and your husband are showing your son both, so at least he knows both eras. I'm doing the same with my nephews, who are 1 and 4. I'm glad we're passing on the classic years to the next generation! (And by the way, Dee Dee Dee is still hilarious!) -- Ken (talk) 03:06, 10 November 2007 (UTC) songs Hi Ken. We don't need to add songwriter info to the albums on which the Muppets are covering other songs. Just the Sesame albums where the contents consist of original material written for the Muppet characters. —Scott (talk) 03:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC) :I'm confused why you feel that way. Since all song pages have songwriter information, I feel that all albums should match other albums, too. Otherwise, if somebody jumps around from Sesame to Muppet albums, the Muppet albums will look like they're not finished. If you guys feel we should treat the Muppet stuff differently, I'll put them back. I just wanted to explain why I was doing them like that. -- Ken (talk) 03:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC) Playhouse Video Hey Ken: I found the rest of the info for these on worldcat. Here's the whole list: *Children's Songs and Stories: #6762, 56min. *Country Music with the Muppets: #6766, 55min. *Fozzie's Muppet Scrapbook: #6769, 56min. *Gonzo Presents Muppet Weird Stuff: 55min. cat# not given, assume #6765 *The Kermit and Piggy Story: #6761, 57min. *Muppet Moments: #6767, 56 min. *The Muppet Revue: #6760, 56 min. *Muppet Treasures: #6764, 56 min. *Rock Music with the Muppets: #6763, 54 min. *Rowlf's Rhapsodies with the Muppets: #6768, 55 min. Incidentally, my two videos have roman numerals on the spine under the cat#. These are 8 and 9: which is their volume number in the series I assume. So the others would just be last digit of the cat#+1 as well. -- Wendy (talk) 17:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC) :Thanks! I was able to do some digging in the Worldcat listings, and I found a library that did list Gonzo as 6765. Thanks for your help! I noticed that Guillermo was adding pictures to these today! I love when one person starts something, and then other people notice, and add something else! -- Ken (talk) 06:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC) SS1 Song Cards? Hey Ken. I found this auction for the SS1 with multiple pictures on the cover. It includes a set of song cards with lyrics and pictures. Have you ever seen these before? I'm assuming they came with the album but I thought it was the version you said you had so I'm not quite sure... -- Wendy (talk) 03:20, 26 October 2007 (UTC) :I think I'm more stunned than the time you found the different couplings on the Havin' Fun boxed set. :It looks like they shrunk down the inside booklet and printed the lyrics and pictures on cards. I've never seen another person mention them when they're selling this version of the cover, so I'll bet you that this was some kind of school mail-order version like we were talking about. Boy, when I first saw the record when I was 1 year old (which was CS 1069), I never would have dreamed of all the variations they made! Grab that, and maybe we'll be able to figure out what the other cards were, or if there were more than 9! You never cease to amaze me! -- Ken (talk) 05:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC) ::I grabbed it. The cards actually seem quite cool with the tabs up top to find them in a box and stuff. And while I was a bit surprised, I've learned to always look at any listing for SS1 at this point! -- Wendy (talk) 17:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC) Yay Records Hey there, I updated a few of the pages with some blurbs about album content. I'm not sure how to arrange a song page but I'd be happy to fill in most of that too, especially for the David album as that's my very favorite. Also posted all the albums I own on my user page so if you specifically need info on any of those, I can provide it (and I'm down to only needing 6 LP albums as of this week!). Heehee "Record Guy", actually it's "Record Girl". :Sorry about that. We have a lot more men than ladies here, and we couldn't tell by your name. Thanks for letting me know! -- Ken (talk) 04:19, 21 October 2007 (UTC) New records guy Hey, check out the contributions of User:Enelar -- a new guy with some records info. I know you like greeting those guys. :) -- Danny (talk) 11:57, 18 October 2007 (UTC) :Wow! Boy, I take a night off to go to a Boy Scout meeting, and when I come back, you not only have the new layout up and running, but it looks like we have another record collector! Cool! Thanks for letting me know! -- Ken (talk) 05:17, 19 October 2007 (UTC) Early SS "Phono-viewer" Record Do you suppose this is official? The cover drawing matches a real cartoon insert from the show at least. Were there "phono-viewers" besides the Show 'n Tell? -- Wendy (talk) 04:01, 13 October 2007 (UTC) :I saw that, but I didn't know what to make of it. I thought it was some kind of an educational filmstrip and record, since CTW was making educational materials for schools, and they were also making early videotapes of the show for schools who couldn't watch the show, like in rural areas, or places with no PBS station. But now that I look at it, that looks like a Show and Tell type of filmstrip. I wish we could blow up that record. The cover says "General Learning Corporation". Do we have anything on that company here somewhere? Anyway, can you grab those for now? I'll think about it some more. -- Ken (talk) 05:03, 13 October 2007 (UTC) ::Oh the educational thing is a good idea; that would explain the lack of explicit "Show 'n Tell" labeling and the "General Learning Corp." part. I've never heard of that company before. I already grabbed the cover; I figured we didn't really need the innards since they are so small. Maybe we should ask Andrew?? Wasn't he the one adding the educational tapes? Or was it someone else? I'm just fascinated by how early it is and the use of the somewhat obscure animation. -- Wendy (talk) 02:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC) :::Hmmm. I just thought of some more things. From the cover, it looks like that was part of a series called the "Phono-Viewer Program", with a subtitle of "Numbers", so now I'm thinking that there were other subjects in this series as well. I'm also wondering if "General Learning Corp" was part of GE at that point, because that would have been right when they were still being made by GE. It seems as though it wasn't until sometime in the mid '70's that they began to change the brand names. Also, this looks very unusual to me, since it opens up and down, and the regular ones open left and right, like a book. I'll have to run some keywords or something through Worldcat. I wish I could see the number! :::Do we have other educational (for school use only) tapes on here? I wasn't sure what you were referring to. -- Ken (talk) 04:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC) ::::I have a vague memory of Andrew (or somebody) adding some school use/curriculum type stuff, or at least mentioning it. General Learning Corporation was founded in 1965 by Time Inc., Silver Burdett and General Electric, so you were right about the GE connection. They appear to have focussed on training teachers and providing curricula that helped integrate technology in learning. A google search pulls up some interesting sounding reports in a database called Eric, which aren't online unfortunately. A search in worldcat pulls up one other SS title: Letters, which is literally a set of 26 phono-viewer style programs. I think you're right that there are probably more of the number series, and if I can figure out where to put it, this stuff deserves its own page. -- Wendy (talk) 18:07, 15 October 2007 (UTC) :::::Cool! You should tell Andrew about that database. I'll bet he knows where we can find it. I saw the list of other titles on Worldcat, and I'm wondering if the numbering is on the packaging, or if the library just gave them numbers as they were cataloguing them. Also, some of the titles reminded me of the cartoons, like the boy who finds the letters A-Z on a fishhook. So how about we make a section for Show 'n Tell, and then have a section for the stuff that was sold to the public, and then another section for stuff that was only for school use? Was that kind of what you were thinking of, or did you want to keep them totally separate? -- Ken (talk) 01:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC) ::::::Eric appears to be a digitized version of archival microfiche; however they have to have copyright consent before the articles are available for reading; the rest is just bibliographic entries. Useful for finding the articles to begin with, but not for reading them! I was thinking of making these a single page actually; "Phono-viewer Sets (General Learning Corp.)" or something like that. While I might consider a "see also" under the Show 'n Tell, I don't feel like they belong together; the latter was sold as a toy for children while these were distributed to schools as curricula. I've queried Andrew about the educational aspect to see if there's other stuff out there (meriting a whole category) or if I should just put it into something like Licensees or whatever. -- Wendy (talk) 18:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC) Another SS1 cover Did you see this? I was quite startled by it myself. I wanted to make sure you don't think it's Canadian or something like that. The record had a red label with the signpost on it. Too bad we can't figure out the order all these covers came out in! -- Wendy (talk) 18:00, 8 October 2007 (UTC) :Wow! As Bert said at the "W" meeting, "Isn't that lovely! It makes the heart pound faster!" I still swear there's another one, with that kind of writing on the sign, but it said "Cast Album" or "Original Cast Album" or something like that. The Sesame Street something something. Anyway, yeah, that's the custom LP label that matches the 45's. My college library had the one with all the little pictures on the front, and that was the label it had. I'm starting to think that all these Columbia variations were different kinds of releases. My college library is lucky enough to have a copy of All About Sesame Street, and I read it all the way through, and I loved it. Everything in there about education, television, and educational television came true, both the good and the bad stuff. Anyway, they discuss at length the very first licensed products that were offered, starting with a set of books, and the first LP. It sounds like there was a version sold in stores, and then there was a package of the books and the LP you could get through mail order, and I'm guessing that they would have also offered this through the Columbia Record Club, and maybe even made a version for schools, Head Start centers, and other educational places. It seems like this album has gone through more cover changes than Elvis or Beatles records! And yet, the most common one is the store-bought book and record. Every day, eBay has at least one. They're usually thrashed, but they're there. But these ones are neat because I've never seen or heard of them before! I swear I'm going to go back to the Workshop someday and try to do research in the vault! -- Ken (talk) 01:58, 9 October 2007 (UTC) Records/Labels pics Here you go Ken. Hope this is what you wanted. Tell me if you need anything else. -- Kyle (talk) 04:27, 04 October 2007 (UTC) Image:Bbsings.JPG Image:Ernieshits.JPG Image:Side1berts.JPG Image:Side1signs.JPG :That's great! Tomorrow I'm going to mess with the album page. Thank you very much! -- Ken (talk) 05:52, 5 October 2007 (UTC) ::Your welcome. -- Kyle (talk) 10:13, 05 October 2007 (UTC) Another Canadian Oddity This showed up today. I wonder if Robin Gibb is actually singing "C is for Cookie"?? Anyhow, it's another 12inch Fever single... -- Wendy (talk) 02:01, 19 September 2007 (UTC) :Hmmm. Without a picture, it's hard to tell exactly what this is. As far as Robin singing, on the album, he sings "Sesame Street Fever", and other characters sing and talk between verses. Robin sings "Trash" as a solo number. Then, he talks to Cookie Monster during the intro to "C is for Cookie", and then Cookie sings it with backup from The Girls. That's all of Robin's spoken and sung material. What's with all the disco stuff you're finding lately? I never knew of anything but the LP and the 45's based on the back covers. I've lost count of how many 12" singles we've found so far. I'll have to copy that info down, and put it somewhere. -- Ken (talk) 02:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC) Archive *Muppet Wiki Talk Archives